fuzzyred | Erotic versus Sexual

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orientation

Erotic versus Sexual

I have a question for all of you out there, because my experience is limited and many of you have very different experiences and perspectives than my own. Can something be erotic but NOT sexual? The dictionary definition of both words seems to indicate not, but some late night musings recently made me wonder if something can be one but not the other.

First, I suppose it might be helpful if I defined what those two words mean to me. For me "erotic" is something that creates arousal, feelings of physical desire; something that is felt but not necessarily acted on. When I think of "sexual", I think specifically of the physical acts that lead to sexual pleasure and completion, or a thought and/or activity that leads to intense feelings of arousal and a desire to act on that arousal.

What got me thinking about this was massage and other touches like back scratches and petting and being drawn on, or having my hair played with. All of these feel really good, and sometimes I do feel arousal, but I rarely want to act on it. I would rather just enjoy the sensations of whatever touch I'm getting, and maybe revel in the potential arousal, but when it comes down to trading the sensual touches for sexual ones, I'd rather just keep going with the sensual touch.

So, I was just wondering if erotic and sexual have to go together, if they can be separate, or if there is another term out there that suits better that I've overlooked. I don't know if I necessarily have to be able to name it, but most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it.

Thoughts?

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>>And you know, even after decades of experience and being romantic (as far as I know) myself, I still can't pin down what's the difference between romantic and queerplatonic ties of the same depth, after you take out kissing on the mouth which seems to be the only thing romantic couples routinely do that platonic couples usually don't (not counting sex, which isn't the same as romance). To me it just seems like a slightly different flavor of feeling. I have to wonder if some other people experience it differently, given their descriptions.<<

I have trouble with this too, although maybe moreso. For me, sometimes even distinguishing what the difference between friendship and romance is is hard, if you take out the kissing and sex bits. I'm not sure if I'm romantic or not, since I don't seem to have the clear, intense lovey-dovey feelings a lot of people do, though I do enjoy close companionship.

That is a different perspective I haven't really thought about. Deep boundary eroding communication types of things tends to be scary and hard for me and I'm not sure it goes in the HAWT category, but sensual touch might do. I can get shivery/gooey/melty just from head skritches and drawing on and/or rubbing/scratching my back and I really like sensation play with fuzzy things and also spiky things like vampire gloves. I don't think I've ever done any kind of energy work, so I don't know how that is for me.

>>So the lines can get blurred. <<

That seems to happen to me a lot.

>> I like this definition. It matches a lot of what I feel.<<

Yay! I'm glad I could help.

You might also consider mehsexual, which some aces use for people who are not sex-repulsed (also called ewwsexual) but don't find it very interesting either. It's just ... sort of okay. Maybe even nice sometimes, but not exciting the way it is for most sexual people.

>> I often have those difficulties. <<

That's why I say that, if allosexual people are bugging you for not having enough sex or it otherwise raises issues in your life that they don't have, you're probably somewhere on the ace spectrum.

>> I'm not sure I've really met enough acespec people to know how my experiences match up. <<

There are clusters, but also a lot of people whose experiences are not close to other people's experiences. It's all fine.

Do keep an eye on my audience, though; I have a substantial number of ace fans.

>>And sometimes I forget that those feelings are valid, and that I can be all those things, without falsely using the term asexual.<<

This is why some people find labels helpful, to distinguish among different places on a spectrum.

All good ideas.

This was the closest I could find to anything useful on the topic:
https://www.racgp.org.au/download/documents/AFP/2010/October/201010yee.pdf

Almost everything seems to be ace-hostile attempts to prop up fading performance and desire, as if 70-year-olds should still be screwing like 30-year-olds and something is wrong if they aren't. >_< For fucksake, evolution invented menopause so grandmothers could boost grandchild survival.

>>You might also consider mehsexual, which some aces use for people who are not sex-repulsed (also called ewwsexual) but don't find it very interesting either. It's just ... sort of okay. Maybe even nice sometimes, but not exciting the way it is for most sexual people.<<

Mehsexual! I love it! This is the way I feel sooo much of the time. Sexy things are okay, and can be enjoyable *if* my buttons are pressed in the right way, but I have atypical buttons and an atypical sequence, so most often sexytimes are just meh, and I'd rather make cookies or go rock climbing.

>>Do keep an eye on my audience, though; I have a substantial number of ace fans.<<

I shall do this. You have a lot of awesome fans, and a lot of awesome works, and I've learned a lot since finding your journal. :D

>This is why some people find labels helpful, to distinguish among different places on a spectrum.<<

This. I don't need a label, I'm happy to be just me, but an accurate one can be rather handy for determining where I stand, and helping other people understand what I'm looking for and what I like.

O.o That is a problematic attitude. And ace-hostile materials are really not very helpful; just because someone stops wanting sex (or never did in the first place) doesn't mean anything is wrong with them that needs fixing (although they certainly have a right to fix it if that lack bothers them).

Also, I forgot to mention it in my other reply, but thank you for the link to AVEN. It seems like it might be a good site to find more like minded people, and more information in general. :)

>> Although it can still be tricky when things are conditional.<<

Very helpful if you can figure out the variables. Some women only enjoy penetration during part of the month. Some men only enjoy erotic pain when coupled with genital stimulation. And so on.

>> Mehsexual! I love it! This is the way I feel sooo much of the time. <<

Yay! :D

>>Sexy things are okay, and can be enjoyable *if* my buttons are pressed in the right way, but I have atypical buttons and an atypical sequence, so most often sexytimes are just meh,<<

Frustrating.

>> and I'd rather make cookies or go rock climbing. <<

These are things that acespec folks say very often, and allosexual folks almost never say.

>> I shall do this. You have a lot of awesome fans, and a lot of awesome works, and I've learned a lot since finding your journal. :D <<

I am delighted to hear that.

If you want do spark conversations with other acefolk, consider prompting or sponsoring material about ace characters. I have a bunch of them, and I'm always up for adding characters from orientations I haven't featured yet.

>> an accurate one can be rather handy for determining where I stand, and helping other people understand what I'm looking for and what I like.<<

Agreed. Me, I like naming things, but I don't feel constrained by labels. It took years of trying on different things to find some that fit, and eventually, come up with some of my own. But some of my orientations just plain irritate people. On a good day I may point out the problems with their whining. On a bad day it's just, "Well, I'm not going to fuck you, so I don't care what you think."

>> O.o That is a problematic attitude. <<

Yep.

>> And ace-hostile materials are really not very helpful; <<

Painfully true.

>> just because someone stops wanting sex (or never did in the first place) doesn't mean anything is wrong with them that needs fixing <<

Agreed. I think it comes from two things:

1) a generally ace-hostile culture where people don't believe in asexuality or consider it a disorder, and

2) an age-hostile society where people do everything they can to suppress all signs of aging and act as young as possible.

I don't think either of those things are very healthy. Especially since it denies people the chance to find whole new flavors of happiness that young people usually don't have the patience for because they're too busy banging like bunnies.

>> (although they certainly have a right to fix it if that lack bothers them). <<

Also true.

>> Also, I forgot to mention it in my other reply, but thank you for the link to AVEN. <<

Yay! I'm so glad you found that useful.

>> It seems like it might be a good site to find more like minded people, and more information in general. :) <<

Likely so. It has a lot of information, and some links to outside blogs and such.

You may also like:

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/72195-links-and-resources-masterpost/

https://asexualagenda.wordpress.com/101-resources/

https://asexualoutreach.org/

https://claudiearseneault.com/?page_id=1320

https://asexualsanonymous.tumblr.com/resources

I want to circle back to something you said way back in your original post, that I think is kind of the key to what we’ve been talking about:

<< ... most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it. >>

Everybody has platonic relationships. But when you start to introduce activities that are “beyond the scope” of a platonic relationship, I think that’s where you start running into difficulties. Here’s a few examples of what I mean, from the point of view of a sexual person:

Hugging = a relatively innocuous part of all close relationships
Clothed back rub = might only be to sooth a sore muscle, but you never know what could happen if it goes on long enough
Cuddles = close, romantic contact that will lead to more things
Things where you start removing clothing (massage, body art, etc) = foreplay

For them, this is a progression towards a more sexualized relationship. For you, however, these are activities that you can enjoy with just about anyone you’re comfortable enough with, without any other expectations; even if you have no attraction toward them, or any desire for anything beyond the platonic.

<< It's like I'm operating on a different frequency that hardly anyone even knows exists, let alone knows how to recognize >>
(I think you hit your own nail on the head with that one)

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