Random thoughts

[fuzzyred]

I was driving in my car today, wearing shorts, and a stray thought popped into my head. "Why are women expected to shave their legs?" I mean, seriously, women and men both have hair there, you see that body part when either (any) gender wears shorts, why are women expected to shave? Mind you, I usually don't, because I often wear pants and it doesn't bother me anyway but it is commonly expected. Especially with a skirt or dress, not just shorts, or bathing suits. Why is hair un-womanly? Why don't men have to shave? WHY DO PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH ABOUT HAIR?

*deep breath* Sorry about that, I'm calm now. It just seems like such an arbitrary thing, and I'm curious where it came from, and why we all continue to buy into it. Of course, if you like shaving, or want to for personal reasons (whatever they may be), that is certainly your prerogative. It just seems unfair to me, is all.

Comments

[ex_flameandsong751]

I never understood the societal expectation to shave, either. A number of European women (while not all) don't, and IMO, it just seems unnatural to want to be completely hairless. Like, it's one thing if it's genuine, legitimate aesthetic reasons (as opposed to "this is my aesthetic because society expects it"), and I know a lot of male swimmers get waxed because they claim it helps them swim faster, but I just... do not like the whole hairless-body thing myself. I like hairy guys*, and I think it's hot when women don't shave.


*I have been attracted to guys without hairy chests before, but hairiness is a preference.

[ex_flameandsong751]

I should also point out that long before I ever came out as trans, I refused to shave. Which is TMI, I guess, but is also a thing, and I never thought it was because "well I just have a male brain so I can reject femininity more easily", because yes I have a male brain, but I still think the expectation of women to shave is ridiculous. (I'm also not a big fan of gendered concepts of clothing and whatnot, like I think it's totally OK for guys to wear skirts, but that's a different subject entirely.)

[fuzzyred]

My brain squeaks a little bit about guys wearing skirts, but only because of "society's expectations". Logically, I know there is no reason guys (and girls) can't wear whatever they want, and people should absolutely do what makes them happy, but the brain washing by society unfortunately means I do have certain concepts etched in my brain that make me go "huh?" when I see something that doesn't fit. Of course, my first reaction to that is to want to understand what is going on and why, followed quickly by "Cool, you do you," even if I never understand (such as a quick glimpse in a grocery store or something.)

[technoshaman]

A proper kilt is _cooler_ in the summer... sadly, it doesn't go to well with riding a motorbike. Several employers ago one of the senior devs was a Serious Scot and we would have "wear your kilt" days...

I wonder what my current employer would think if I showed up in a kilt. :)

[fuzzyred]

I always forget about kilts XD And yes, I imagine they would not mix very well with riding a motorbike. "Wear your kilt" days sound like fun :D

Hmm.. I suppose it depends what kind of work environment it is, and what your employer is like. I'm pretty sure no one could get away with a kilt at my workplace (production worker OR managment).

[fuzzyred]

My legs are mostly the ones I ignore. The hair there doesn't bother me, it usually doesn't get seen, and I only shave it if I feel like it, because sometimes hairless is "prettier" in my head. Other places, its itchy otherwise, so I shave for practical reasons, which is probably also TMI (oops). I feel like Europe has different priorities than North America. Somethings they are more relaxed about, and others they are more picky about. There is good and bad everywhere I guess.

[technoshaman]

The other thing? If you have to wear hose/stockings/tights/whathaveyou? Having fur there ITCHES. (I did Early American Christmas Dinners for four years. Knee breeches and stockings were de rigueur.) (Perhaps that's why a Scot's kilt hose are too thick to catch on one's leg-feathers?)

Europe definitely does have different priorities. How the treat their eggs, for one thing. I scoured the ENTIRE refrigerator section in the co-op in Gateshead, no eggs.

They were across the aisle, on a regular shelf. Which is perfectly safe if you don't chemistry the hell out of them like us Yanks do.

Oh, and religion, too. Tomorrow's a holiday for us heatherns, and I'll bet a majority of the Christians in Britain know it. And I remember my once-companion's co-worker's reaction to me: "Ooooh, she's got a shaman..." not negative at all; I was considered somewhat exotic and to be envied. The fact that a dear friend is an out-of-the-closet kitchen witch was absolutely no barrier to her being elected parish councillor, nor running for MP... and the parish church in the next village but one welcomes her musical talents with open arms. She's been friends with at least two vicars...

But, yeah, you do you. As for me, pretty may turn the head, but clever and kind and funny wins the heart.

[fuzzyred]

I never thought of that. I don't wear pantyhose or stockings very often, so it's not experience I really have, but it does make sense. I imagine the hair might also get caught on the hose, and those things are delicate enough as is, without adding things for them to snag on.

That sounds a lot healthier overall, and more like how things used to be done.

That sounds very refreshing. Open-mindedness is definitely a thing we need more of, the world over but especially here I think.

Yes, substance is more important than flash, though having eye candy never hurts ;)

[stealthsystem]

We don't shave. Never have. Don't plan to. But some women who have dark hair feel uncomfortable with visible hair.

[fuzzyred]

Ya, I can see how someone with darker hair would feel more self-conscious about it than someone with light hair. I'm lucky that most of mine is pretty light. And I also don't care very much anyway.

[lithophiles]

Weirdly, I actually feel kinda dysphoric at the front due to most of our body hair being light. Mine definitely isn't, and... it's a big part of my body image in-system? But yeah, I imagine I would definitely get harassment for it here if I went around with a mostly-feminine presentation and a lot of visible body hair.

-Helain

[fuzzyred]

I can see how a mismatch in mental a appearance and physical appearance would cause some issues., especially if it's a big part of you in-system. I hope it doesn't cause you too much discomfort when you are at the front. Sadly, you probably would, although I don't agree with it one bit. It's your body, and you should be able to wear it however makes you mostly happy, as long as you aren't harming anyone in the process. (Offending their delicate sensibilities does not count as harm.)

[siliconshaman]

Because Western society as it now, expects women to display neotic features, including a lack of body hair to mimic prepubescent bodies. [while at the same time prominently display secondary sexual characteristics such as mammary development.]. This ties in with the sexualisation of underage girls by the fashion industry.

and yes, that is exactly as skeevy as it sounds.

[fuzzyred]

That is extremely skeevy sounding. It makes me concerned for the health (mental and otherwise) of society. But it maybe also explains some things... *shudder*

[siliconshaman]

Well, not to spin off down an internet conspiracy rabbit hole, but there are very few people who define fashion, and almost all of the half dozen or so of them are white males... and at least three had Epstein as a friend.

[fuzzyred]

Is it still a conspiracy rabbit hole if it's true? Cause that sounds mighty suspicious, and plausible. And possibly like the fashion industry should be burned down with fire (or destructo-beams). Along with any number of other societal features.

[lithophiles]

So, like, this is probably a weird response, since I'm from one of those plural systems that has a large inner world, but... it influences my values and tastes at the front, definitely. And it's kind of embarrassing to admit this at front, but I personally am attracted to really hairy women. (This is more common to see in my world, since there are multiple polymorphs of male and female, and in some places you will definitely see women with a lot of chest and arm hair along with leg hair. Although not all societies are equally tolerant of all polymorphs.) So yeah, my stance is "shave if you like it" too, but my personal attraction (the superficial physical part, anyway) to women goes up with the amount of body hair they have. And no, I have no idea what this society's obsession with it is all about.

-Helain

[fuzzyred]

That's not a weird response at all. I like meeting different people, and it is fascinating to learn more about them and what makes us all different and unique, and what we have in common. I personally am attracted more to males and prefer a moderate amount of (well-kept) hair, but I'm really not very picky in that regard. Your preferences make a lot of sense, and are a refreshing 180 from the typical society standards (over here in North America anyway.) I think we'd all be better off if more people took the "shave if you want to" stance, rather than obsessing over who can have how much hair where.

(Sorry for the extremely delayed reply, I've been a bit busy and low on spoons. Thanks for leaving a comment!)