fuzzyred | Erotic versus Sexual

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Erotic versus Sexual

I have a question for all of you out there, because my experience is limited and many of you have very different experiences and perspectives than my own. Can something be erotic but NOT sexual? The dictionary definition of both words seems to indicate not, but some late night musings recently made me wonder if something can be one but not the other.

First, I suppose it might be helpful if I defined what those two words mean to me. For me "erotic" is something that creates arousal, feelings of physical desire; something that is felt but not necessarily acted on. When I think of "sexual", I think specifically of the physical acts that lead to sexual pleasure and completion, or a thought and/or activity that leads to intense feelings of arousal and a desire to act on that arousal.

What got me thinking about this was massage and other touches like back scratches and petting and being drawn on, or having my hair played with. All of these feel really good, and sometimes I do feel arousal, but I rarely want to act on it. I would rather just enjoy the sensations of whatever touch I'm getting, and maybe revel in the potential arousal, but when it comes down to trading the sensual touches for sexual ones, I'd rather just keep going with the sensual touch.

So, I was just wondering if erotic and sexual have to go together, if they can be separate, or if there is another term out there that suits better that I've overlooked. I don't know if I necessarily have to be able to name it, but most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it.

Thoughts?

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Okay, those are common feelings on the acespec. Demisexual and gray-asexual people in particular may have erotic feelings, but without the driving compulsion to act on them that allosexual people typically feel.

You may also want to read "Like Cherries Harmonizing Pussycats," which is about an activity that would normally be sexual but isn't in context.

Another example is the "happy ending" provided in some Asian massage as a way to cope with erections. It is orgasmic, but in a practical or clinical way rather than a sexually intimate way.

There are tools for this. I've linked some of them in my notes.

Yes - No - Maybe list
Always - Sometimes - Never list
These tools group things that don't need to be discussed repeatedly because the answer is consistent vs. things that need consent each time. The differences will really pop out if you put things like genital contact in the "sometimes" column while another person puts them in the "always" column.

A variation is that you can put more points on the scale: Always - Usually - Sometimes - Rarely - Never
Or however many you want.

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/listchart.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/explorationexample-e1431621705352.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/compassionateboundaries.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/boundariesexample.jpg

This is a favorite sexytalk guide:

https://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/autostraddle-sexapalooza-handout.pdf

But there are many others:

http://selfservetoys.com/resourcecenter/favorite-yesnomaybe-lists-available-online/

Considering kink again: think about how some people want to be stroked with fur and leather, and some are really into hand spankings, but not everyone likes having their ass whacked with a heavy paddle. It is every bit as okay to prefer the "lighter" end of physical contact in sensual or erotic activities as it is for most people to make a beeline for orgasm.

>> Sexual people ultimately want sex, and can’t really conceive that a relationship could exist without it. <<

True, but most of them do have relationships that aren't sexual. They had parents; they may have siblings or children; and most folks have at least a few friends who are in a sexually irrelevant category. If you say that you are looking for friendships, or you think of someone as a brother/sister, they can usually wrap their mind around what such a relationship is -- even if they don't understand why you don't want to screw everything that moves.

The asexual population is estimated around 1%, but seems to count only lifelong aces, ignoring the fact that almost everyone starts out asexual as children and a substantial number of seniors have lower or no interest in sex anymore. If you add in the rest of the asexual spectrum (demifolks, graysexuals, etc.) and celibates, that's probably higher, before getting into the populations that generally have low or no interest.

In fact, if you simply cut out the hormonal peak between mid-teens and mid-thirties or so, there are a lot of people who aren't necessarily led around by their crotch even if they like sex.

Still not easy to find what you're looking for, but a bit broader in options for company without getting chased across the couch.

>>I think of, for example, 1940's pin-up girls, which images I find erotic without being sexual. <<

That's a great example! Those are suggestive but not explicit.

In fact, that's one place where I differ vehemently from most people in defining asexuality. They insist that asexuals don't feel any sexual attraction. I say it includes people who are capable of noticing that someone is sexy, but they don't feel driven to act on that. Your reference to enjoying sensual or erotic touch without particularly wanting an orgasm is another great example.

Sexual people typically don't feel those things, they tend to be driven by sexual urges, sometimes beyond reason (because if humans could logic out of mating instincts, the species would probably die out).

Thus, anyone who doesn't feel strongly driven to copulate and to pair off will experience difficulties in dealing with the mainstream, and their experiences will often match those of other people on the acespec, even if there are variations in how acefolk feel.

My fans have gone bonkers over the last few bits of acepr0n I wrote, and some of that stuff was really hardcore intimacy, interpenetration of emotions. It is possible to make things very very intimate and arousing without being at all carnal. And some of those will make demifolk or other acefolk feel as hot at bothered as hetfolk get looking at sexypr0n, just not pinpointed in the same bodyparts.

But the original question relates more to dating, not making friends (at least that’s how I read it).

In the context of dating I think my comment still stands - sexual people ultimately want sex. The introduction of sensual acts in dating (back rubs, cuddling, etc) for them is a precursor to more sexual acts. Remove sex as the end goal, and they have no motivation to continue.

In another comment you made reference to the “hormonal peak”. I think this reinforces my point even more. Within that age range, one of the major milestones in dating *is* sex - either as it’s own reward (casual dating), or as part of a compatibility test for development of a deeper relationship (love). Once again, when you take sex out of the equation, the sexual person no longer has any motivation to continue.

It helps and it doesn’t.

There are some parallels to a couple of relationships I have (if it matters, hetero). Sometimes I feel like I need to be able to define those relationships beyond the word “friends”.

Ultimately I think this is just a bigger term than what I need.

You can keep looking for other terms, or build your own. I've done both.

No longer “anonymous”. Feel free to say Hi anytime. :)

Just putting a name to the conversation. Should our paths cross again you’ll know where you know me from.

Hello! It's neat that you made a profile. I'll certainly be keeping an eye out to see if our paths cross again.

Count on it! :)

I never thought about looking for companions in a different age bracket before (for all that age isn't a factor for me). This might be helpful in finding more of the connections I want, or at least having a higher chance of success.

>>But the original question relates more to dating, not making friends (at least that’s how I read it).<<

For the most part, yes. Although I am more frequently looking to keep things just platonic and at the friendship level, and even that doesn't seem to compute most times; I'm interacting in a friendly and possibly flirty (usually unintentionally) manner with someone who has a different crotch shape, I MUST want sex. *eyeroll*

>>The introduction of sensual acts in dating (back rubs, cuddling, etc) for them is a precursor to more sexual acts. Remove sex as the end goal, and they have no motivation to continue.<<

I sort of agree with this, but not entirely. I think sexual people more often *expect* sensual things to lead to orgasm related stuff, but I don't think they have zero motivation if sex is removed. Cuddling feels good to most everyone, as do hugs and back rub type things. So I think even with sexuals you can have one without the other, it's just expectations that differ. And they may choose not to continue the relationship if they realize sex is totally off the table.

Useful resources! Thanks for the links on ways to discuss preferences and maybe even just organize them for *myself*, so I can have a better understanding of what I want and need.

The older people get, typically the less important sex gets and the more important companionship gets. This is one reason why old women sometimes live together, even if they aren't lesbians.

Romance is more variable. Sometimes it declines alongside sexuality, going from romantic sexual to aromantic sexual or similar. Other times it actually increases to pick up the slack, so the relationship shifts from romantic sexual to romantic asexual or thereabouts.

I'm happy I could help!

Sexuality is complicated. I'm not kidding when I say mine is a tesseract.

Figuring out what you like or don't like, and why, is easier if you have lists of possible things. Try to cultivate a little willingness to explore things that you aren't sure you'd like, or think you might not like, as long as they're not downright offputting. I've had some surprises, and this seems to be a common experience. It's hard to know for sure what your nerves will do in advance, although once you've tried a variety of things you can often derive patterns (e.g. most people in kink like either "sting" or "thud" pain but fewer like both).

>>Okay, those are common feelings on the acespec. Demisexual and gray-asexual people in particular may have erotic feelings, but without the driving compulsion to act on them that allosexual people typically feel.<<

This. I seem to still have erotic feelings from time to time, but I rarely feel the *need* to do anything about them. Or my body is driving the need, but my brain is still kind of "meh" about it.

>>In fact, that's one place where I differ vehemently from most people in defining asexuality. They insist that asexuals don't feel any sexual attraction. I say it includes people who are capable of noticing that someone is sexy, but they don't feel driven to act on that.<<

I like this definition. It matches a lot of what I feel.

>>Thus, anyone who doesn't feel strongly driven to copulate and to pair off will experience difficulties in dealing with the mainstream, and their experiences will often match those of other people on the acespec,<<

I often have those difficulties. I'm not sure I've really met enough acespec people to know how my experiences match up.

>>even if there are variations in how acefolk feel. <<

I think this is an important part that I often forget. That I can find orgasms pleasurable, and find people visually appealing, but still be on the ace spectrum, because it *is* a spectrum. For me it really is a lack of compulsion and driving need and desire that makes me think gray-ace fits, rather than a dislike for sexual acts themselves. And sometimes I forget that those feelings are valid, and that I can be all those things, without falsely using the term asexual.

That's intriguing. I'll have to pay attention to my body and desires as I age, and see what changes for me. And in the meantime, perhaps I can find some others that I can talk to, and see how things have and haven't changed for them.

>> This. I seem to still have erotic feelings from time to time, but I rarely feel the *need* to do anything about them.<<

That is often described as "gray-asexual."

>> Or my body is driving the need, but my brain is still kind of "meh" about it. <<

O_O That really sucks. Sometimes masturbation will make it go away, occasionally herbs or meditation will help, but other times the only solution is to have sex you don't really want to make your bits stop bothering you.

>>Sexuality is complicated. I'm not kidding when I say mine is a tesseract.<<

It certainly is. I don't think mine is on that level of complicated, but it doesn't feel like much of an exaggeration when I say the conditions for me being in the right mood for sex are "once every third blue moon from 6-8pm with pink tights. And oh ya, next time they have to be purple." XD Brains are complicated.

>>Figuring out what you like or don't like, and why, is easier if you have lists of possible things.<<

Lists certainly help, then I don't have to think of things from scratch, and I'm less likely to miss something. Although it can still be tricky when things are conditional. (Hmmm... that "sometimes" box might come in real handy.)

>>Try to cultivate a little willingness to explore things that you aren't sure you'd like, or think you might not like, as long as they're not downright offputting. I've had some surprises, and this seems to be a common experience.<<

I generally like trying new things, though I have to remember not to go into it with too many preconceived notions. Sometimes I can psyche myself out, if I go in expecting not to like something.

>>although once you've tried a variety of things you can often derive patterns (e.g. most people in kink like either "sting" or "thud" pain but fewer like both)<<

I seem to be one of the rarer ones who likes both, though I prefer milder amounts of either, rather than a lot of "sting" or "thud." I have noticed a tendency to avoid anything that is pinchy or scratchy though; those sensation don't really do it for me.

>>That is often described as "gray-asexual."<<

I have come across that term before, and it seems to fit me fairly well.

>>O_O That really sucks. Sometimes masturbation will make it go away, occasionally herbs or meditation will help, but other times the only solution is to have sex you don't really want to make your bits stop bothering you.<<

Thankfully, I usually *can* deal with it through masturbation. But even then there still seems to be a disconnect. It's physically pleasurable but my brain isn't engaged, especially in the beginning. At least when I take care of it myself, there are no icky feelings that go along with it, just a sense of "hey, body thought this was a good idea." I've had multiple experiences with partners where I didn't get the appropriate foreplay (usually mental for me), and I spent most of the encounter thinking "Are you done yet?" and "Why are you touching me?" But it wasn't physically unpleasant so I kept going. I possibly maybe need to review my boundaries and how to set them right.

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