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fuzzyred ([personal profile] fuzzyred) wrote2021-02-09 09:43 am
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Erotic versus Sexual

I have a question for all of you out there, because my experience is limited and many of you have very different experiences and perspectives than my own. Can something be erotic but NOT sexual? The dictionary definition of both words seems to indicate not, but some late night musings recently made me wonder if something can be one but not the other.

First, I suppose it might be helpful if I defined what those two words mean to me. For me "erotic" is something that creates arousal, feelings of physical desire; something that is felt but not necessarily acted on. When I think of "sexual", I think specifically of the physical acts that lead to sexual pleasure and completion, or a thought and/or activity that leads to intense feelings of arousal and a desire to act on that arousal.

What got me thinking about this was massage and other touches like back scratches and petting and being drawn on, or having my hair played with. All of these feel really good, and sometimes I do feel arousal, but I rarely want to act on it. I would rather just enjoy the sensations of whatever touch I'm getting, and maybe revel in the potential arousal, but when it comes down to trading the sensual touches for sexual ones, I'd rather just keep going with the sensual touch.

So, I was just wondering if erotic and sexual have to go together, if they can be separate, or if there is another term out there that suits better that I've overlooked. I don't know if I necessarily have to be able to name it, but most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it.

Thoughts?
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 10:40 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, those are common feelings on the acespec. Demisexual and gray-asexual people in particular may have erotic feelings, but without the driving compulsion to act on them that allosexual people typically feel.

You may also want to read "Like Cherries Harmonizing Pussycats," which is about an activity that would normally be sexual but isn't in context.

Another example is the "happy ending" provided in some Asian massage as a way to cope with erections. It is orgasmic, but in a practical or clinical way rather than a sexually intimate way.
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 10:54 am (UTC)(link)
There are tools for this. I've linked some of them in my notes.

Yes - No - Maybe list
Always - Sometimes - Never list
These tools group things that don't need to be discussed repeatedly because the answer is consistent vs. things that need consent each time. The differences will really pop out if you put things like genital contact in the "sometimes" column while another person puts them in the "always" column.

A variation is that you can put more points on the scale: Always - Usually - Sometimes - Rarely - Never
Or however many you want.

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/listchart.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/explorationexample-e1431621705352.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/compassionateboundaries.jpg

https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/boundariesexample.jpg

This is a favorite sexytalk guide:

https://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/autostraddle-sexapalooza-handout.pdf

But there are many others:

http://selfservetoys.com/resourcecenter/favorite-yesnomaybe-lists-available-online/

Considering kink again: think about how some people want to be stroked with fur and leather, and some are really into hand spankings, but not everyone likes having their ass whacked with a heavy paddle. It is every bit as okay to prefer the "lighter" end of physical contact in sensual or erotic activities as it is for most people to make a beeline for orgasm.
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 10:57 am (UTC)(link)
>> Sexual people ultimately want sex, and can’t really conceive that a relationship could exist without it. <<

True, but most of them do have relationships that aren't sexual. They had parents; they may have siblings or children; and most folks have at least a few friends who are in a sexually irrelevant category. If you say that you are looking for friendships, or you think of someone as a brother/sister, they can usually wrap their mind around what such a relationship is -- even if they don't understand why you don't want to screw everything that moves.
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 11:02 am (UTC)(link)
The asexual population is estimated around 1%, but seems to count only lifelong aces, ignoring the fact that almost everyone starts out asexual as children and a substantial number of seniors have lower or no interest in sex anymore. If you add in the rest of the asexual spectrum (demifolks, graysexuals, etc.) and celibates, that's probably higher, before getting into the populations that generally have low or no interest.

In fact, if you simply cut out the hormonal peak between mid-teens and mid-thirties or so, there are a lot of people who aren't necessarily led around by their crotch even if they like sex.

Still not easy to find what you're looking for, but a bit broader in options for company without getting chased across the couch.
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Yes ...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 11:03 am (UTC)(link)
>>I think of, for example, 1940's pin-up girls, which images I find erotic without being sexual. <<

That's a great example! Those are suggestive but not explicit.
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Yes ...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 11:07 am (UTC)(link)
In fact, that's one place where I differ vehemently from most people in defining asexuality. They insist that asexuals don't feel any sexual attraction. I say it includes people who are capable of noticing that someone is sexy, but they don't feel driven to act on that. Your reference to enjoying sensual or erotic touch without particularly wanting an orgasm is another great example.

Sexual people typically don't feel those things, they tend to be driven by sexual urges, sometimes beyond reason (because if humans could logic out of mating instincts, the species would probably die out).

Thus, anyone who doesn't feel strongly driven to copulate and to pair off will experience difficulties in dealing with the mainstream, and their experiences will often match those of other people on the acespec, even if there are variations in how acefolk feel.
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Re: Yes

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-17 11:10 am (UTC)(link)
My fans have gone bonkers over the last few bits of acepr0n I wrote, and some of that stuff was really hardcore intimacy, interpenetration of emotions. It is possible to make things very very intimate and arousing without being at all carnal. And some of those will make demifolk or other acefolk feel as hot at bothered as hetfolk get looking at sexypr0n, just not pinpointed in the same bodyparts.

Re: One person’s take...

(Anonymous) 2021-02-18 10:21 am (UTC)(link)
But the original question relates more to dating, not making friends (at least that’s how I read it).

In the context of dating I think my comment still stands - sexual people ultimately want sex. The introduction of sensual acts in dating (back rubs, cuddling, etc) for them is a precursor to more sexual acts. Remove sex as the end goal, and they have no motivation to continue.

In another comment you made reference to the “hormonal peak”. I think this reinforces my point even more. Within that age range, one of the major milestones in dating *is* sex - either as it’s own reward (casual dating), or as part of a compatibility test for development of a deeper relationship (love). Once again, when you take sex out of the equation, the sexual person no longer has any motivation to continue.

Re: Well ...

(Anonymous) 2021-02-18 10:48 am (UTC)(link)
It helps and it doesn’t.

There are some parallels to a couple of relationships I have (if it matters, hetero). Sometimes I feel like I need to be able to define those relationships beyond the word “friends”.

Ultimately I think this is just a bigger term than what I need.
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Re: Well ...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-18 11:07 am (UTC)(link)
You can keep looking for other terms, or build your own. I've done both.
arthur_p_dent: (Default)

Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] arthur_p_dent 2021-02-23 11:14 am (UTC)(link)
No longer “anonymous”. Feel free to say Hi anytime. :)
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Re: Well ...

[personal profile] arthur_p_dent 2021-02-23 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Just putting a name to the conversation. Should our paths cross again you’ll know where you know me from.
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] arthur_p_dent 2021-02-23 06:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Count on it! :)
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-24 01:41 am (UTC)(link)
The older people get, typically the less important sex gets and the more important companionship gets. This is one reason why old women sometimes live together, even if they aren't lesbians.

Romance is more variable. Sometimes it declines alongside sexuality, going from romantic sexual to aromantic sexual or similar. Other times it actually increases to pick up the slack, so the relationship shifts from romantic sexual to romantic asexual or thereabouts.
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-24 01:56 am (UTC)(link)
I'm happy I could help!

Sexuality is complicated. I'm not kidding when I say mine is a tesseract.

Figuring out what you like or don't like, and why, is easier if you have lists of possible things. Try to cultivate a little willingness to explore things that you aren't sure you'd like, or think you might not like, as long as they're not downright offputting. I've had some surprises, and this seems to be a common experience. It's hard to know for sure what your nerves will do in advance, although once you've tried a variety of things you can often derive patterns (e.g. most people in kink like either "sting" or "thud" pain but fewer like both).
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Re: One person’s take...

[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith 2021-02-24 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
>> This. I seem to still have erotic feelings from time to time, but I rarely feel the *need* to do anything about them.<<

That is often described as "gray-asexual."

>> Or my body is driving the need, but my brain is still kind of "meh" about it. <<

O_O That really sucks. Sometimes masturbation will make it go away, occasionally herbs or meditation will help, but other times the only solution is to have sex you don't really want to make your bits stop bothering you.

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