Erotic versus Sexual
Feb. 9th, 2021 09:43 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fuzzyredI have a question for all of you out there, because my experience is limited and many of you have very different experiences and perspectives than my own. Can something be erotic but NOT sexual? The dictionary definition of both words seems to indicate not, but some late night musings recently made me wonder if something can be one but not the other.
First, I suppose it might be helpful if I defined what those two words mean to me. For me "erotic" is something that creates arousal, feelings of physical desire; something that is felt but not necessarily acted on. When I think of "sexual", I think specifically of the physical acts that lead to sexual pleasure and completion, or a thought and/or activity that leads to intense feelings of arousal and a desire to act on that arousal.
What got me thinking about this was massage and other touches like back scratches and petting and being drawn on, or having my hair played with. All of these feel really good, and sometimes I do feel arousal, but I rarely want to act on it. I would rather just enjoy the sensations of whatever touch I'm getting, and maybe revel in the potential arousal, but when it comes down to trading the sensual touches for sexual ones, I'd rather just keep going with the sensual touch.
So, I was just wondering if erotic and sexual have to go together, if they can be separate, or if there is another term out there that suits better that I've overlooked. I don't know if I necessarily have to be able to name it, but most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it.
Thoughts?
First, I suppose it might be helpful if I defined what those two words mean to me. For me "erotic" is something that creates arousal, feelings of physical desire; something that is felt but not necessarily acted on. When I think of "sexual", I think specifically of the physical acts that lead to sexual pleasure and completion, or a thought and/or activity that leads to intense feelings of arousal and a desire to act on that arousal.
What got me thinking about this was massage and other touches like back scratches and petting and being drawn on, or having my hair played with. All of these feel really good, and sometimes I do feel arousal, but I rarely want to act on it. I would rather just enjoy the sensations of whatever touch I'm getting, and maybe revel in the potential arousal, but when it comes down to trading the sensual touches for sexual ones, I'd rather just keep going with the sensual touch.
So, I was just wondering if erotic and sexual have to go together, if they can be separate, or if there is another term out there that suits better that I've overlooked. I don't know if I necessarily have to be able to name it, but most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it.
Thoughts?
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-11 06:51 am (UTC)But seriously folks...
>> I’d rather ... just focus on the sensual, if that makes any sense << It makes perfect sense, at least to other sensual people (takes one to know one, though we’re few and far between). Let’s look at your example of tracing designs on your back.
For you, I can think of many different things you would be experiencing: the excitement of being exposed in front of someone; the tingles and scratches from a pen tip; the distinct smell of a marker; arousal when a hand incidentally brushes against buttocks or breasts. You’re taking pleasure from the acts themselves.
For another sensual person, their (our) enjoyment is tied to those very same things: the adrenaline rush of seeing you exposed; hearing the little giggles as the pen traces around, maybe causing a tickle here and there; seeing the wrinkle in your nose from the marker smell; hearing the faint moan caused by the brush of skin on skin.
This is what I mean by “shared and enjoyed for its own sake”. Sure, there’s bound to be some arousal on both sides, but it’s not the raison d’être, and both can be perfectly satisfied with just this experience itself.
>> The trouble is communicating that to partners << Absolutely. Because the vast majority of people are sexual, not sensual, and don’t really understand that there’s a difference. They’ll take part in sensual activities, but their real motivation (whether conscious or not) is that it will eventually lead to sexual activities.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-11 02:31 pm (UTC)Not originally intended, but it was noticed and left in, and I was comtemplating and a little "heh" in brackets, but decided not to.
>>This is what I mean by “shared and enjoyed for its own sake”. Sure, there’s bound to be some arousal on both sides, but it’s not the raison d’être, and both can be perfectly satisfied with just this experience itself.<<
So much this. This paragraph and the one before are dead on and exactly what I was thinking/meaning/trying to say. I think my intial confusion was thinking that "sensual" excluded arousal entirely, but you hit the nail on the ehad for how I feel perfectly.
>>Because the vast majority of people are sexual, not sensual, and don’t really understand that there’s a difference. They’ll take part in sensual activities, but their real motivation (whether conscious or not) is that it will eventually lead to sexual activities.<<
Again, bang on with this. It's like I'm operating on a different frequency that hardly anyone even knows exists, let alone knows how to recognize, and I'm not often eloquent or clear enough to explain it in a way that they get. Plus, fighting against the tide all the time is hard.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-12 06:29 am (UTC)Thank you for expanding on the word “erotic”. It kind of fell out of the conversation a while back, but you’ve definitely helped illustrate that sensual/erotic/sexual are distinctly different things (even though feelings like arousal can be a part of each of them).
You’ve also touched on something else that I was going to expand on as well: “... the potential for conflict”.
Most people are not objective when they’re trying to process information. They’re subject to their own biases/experiences/predilections - their brains process things in a way that makes sense to them. So when you’re trying to communicate something to a person with a completely different mindset, there can be a loss in translation.
>> ... I’m not often eloquent or clear enough to explain it in a way that they get. <<
You’re right that they don’t get it, but it’s not necessarily from your lack of ability to explain it. Most people just don’t have the ability to put it into the same context as you. For instance, if you tell a sexual person that you aren’t really interested in sex, for them that might mean it’ll take more than a couple of dates before things progress. It simply doesn’t register that “not that interested” could mean that you potentially never want sex, but still want the emotional and (non-sexual) physical closeness of a relationship. Sexual people ultimately want sex, and can’t really conceive that a relationship could exist without it.
>> Plus, fighting against the tide all the time is hard. <<
I know that feeling all to well (although admittedly, I’m drawing parallels to other aspects of my life other than sex). When seemingly every other person is pushing against you, it becomes harder and harder to push back.
I don’t know that I have words that can help you on this one. That tide has dragged me under more times than I can count. I keep trying, but you’re right - it’s hard.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-13 11:14 pm (UTC)>>I don’t know that I have words that can help you on this one. That tide has dragged me under more times than I can count. I keep trying, but you’re right - it’s hard.<<
*hugs* That *is* hard. But hopefully a support system and friends helps. It's nice to not be alone. *lends whatever strength I can*
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-14 12:44 am (UTC)*hugs* right back. :)
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-14 03:34 am (UTC)*hugs*
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-14 04:43 am (UTC)Good luck. 🙂
*hug*
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-15 02:31 pm (UTC)Thanks for keeping me company, and being a sounding board for bouncing ideas back and forth. I wish you luck with your stuff too. *more hugs*
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-16 05:01 am (UTC)... Especially with all these *hugs* flying back and forth - this is great! :)
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-16 05:34 pm (UTC)Yes! ALL THE HUGS!!!!! *hugs*
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-23 11:14 am (UTC)Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-23 02:31 pm (UTC)Re: One person’s take...
From:Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-17 11:02 am (UTC)In fact, if you simply cut out the hormonal peak between mid-teens and mid-thirties or so, there are a lot of people who aren't necessarily led around by their crotch even if they like sex.
Still not easy to find what you're looking for, but a bit broader in options for company without getting chased across the couch.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 01:06 am (UTC)Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 01:41 am (UTC)Romance is more variable. Sometimes it declines alongside sexuality, going from romantic sexual to aromantic sexual or similar. Other times it actually increases to pick up the slack, so the relationship shifts from romantic sexual to romantic asexual or thereabouts.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 02:12 am (UTC)Re: One person’s take...
From:Re: One person’s take...
From:Re: One person’s take...
From:Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-17 10:57 am (UTC)True, but most of them do have relationships that aren't sexual. They had parents; they may have siblings or children; and most folks have at least a few friends who are in a sexually irrelevant category. If you say that you are looking for friendships, or you think of someone as a brother/sister, they can usually wrap their mind around what such a relationship is -- even if they don't understand why you don't want to screw everything that moves.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-18 10:21 am (UTC)In the context of dating I think my comment still stands - sexual people ultimately want sex. The introduction of sensual acts in dating (back rubs, cuddling, etc) for them is a precursor to more sexual acts. Remove sex as the end goal, and they have no motivation to continue.
In another comment you made reference to the “hormonal peak”. I think this reinforces my point even more. Within that age range, one of the major milestones in dating *is* sex - either as it’s own reward (casual dating), or as part of a compatibility test for development of a deeper relationship (love). Once again, when you take sex out of the equation, the sexual person no longer has any motivation to continue.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 01:17 am (UTC)For the most part, yes. Although I am more frequently looking to keep things just platonic and at the friendship level, and even that doesn't seem to compute most times; I'm interacting in a friendly and possibly flirty (usually unintentionally) manner with someone who has a different crotch shape, I MUST want sex. *eyeroll*
>>The introduction of sensual acts in dating (back rubs, cuddling, etc) for them is a precursor to more sexual acts. Remove sex as the end goal, and they have no motivation to continue.<<
I sort of agree with this, but not entirely. I think sexual people more often *expect* sensual things to lead to orgasm related stuff, but I don't think they have zero motivation if sex is removed. Cuddling feels good to most everyone, as do hugs and back rub type things. So I think even with sexuals you can have one without the other, it's just expectations that differ. And they may choose not to continue the relationship if they realize sex is totally off the table.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 09:23 am (UTC)<< ... most of the people I've interacted with seem to use the sensual touch as a means to a sexual end, and don't quite seem to grasp that the touch can be erotic and arousing for me without me wanting to do anything about it. >>
Everybody has platonic relationships. But when you start to introduce activities that are “beyond the scope” of a platonic relationship, I think that’s where you start running into difficulties. Here’s a few examples of what I mean, from the point of view of a sexual person:
Hugging = a relatively innocuous part of all close relationships
Clothed back rub = might only be to sooth a sore muscle, but you never know what could happen if it goes on long enough
Cuddles = close, romantic contact that will lead to more things
Things where you start removing clothing (massage, body art, etc) = foreplay
For them, this is a progression towards a more sexualized relationship. For you, however, these are activities that you can enjoy with just about anyone you’re comfortable enough with, without any other expectations; even if you have no attraction toward them, or any desire for anything beyond the platonic.
<< It's like I'm operating on a different frequency that hardly anyone even knows exists, let alone knows how to recognize >>
(I think you hit your own nail on the head with that one)
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-17 10:54 am (UTC)Yes - No - Maybe list
Always - Sometimes - Never list
These tools group things that don't need to be discussed repeatedly because the answer is consistent vs. things that need consent each time. The differences will really pop out if you put things like genital contact in the "sometimes" column while another person puts them in the "always" column.
A variation is that you can put more points on the scale: Always - Usually - Sometimes - Rarely - Never
Or however many you want.
https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/listchart.jpg
https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/explorationexample-e1431621705352.jpg
https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/compassionateboundaries.jpg
https://compassionaterevolt.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/boundariesexample.jpg
This is a favorite sexytalk guide:
https://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/autostraddle-sexapalooza-handout.pdf
But there are many others:
http://selfservetoys.com/resourcecenter/favorite-yesnomaybe-lists-available-online/
Considering kink again: think about how some people want to be stroked with fur and leather, and some are really into hand spankings, but not everyone likes having their ass whacked with a heavy paddle. It is every bit as okay to prefer the "lighter" end of physical contact in sensual or erotic activities as it is for most people to make a beeline for orgasm.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 01:38 am (UTC)Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 01:56 am (UTC)Sexuality is complicated. I'm not kidding when I say mine is a tesseract.
Figuring out what you like or don't like, and why, is easier if you have lists of possible things. Try to cultivate a little willingness to explore things that you aren't sure you'd like, or think you might not like, as long as they're not downright offputting. I've had some surprises, and this seems to be a common experience. It's hard to know for sure what your nerves will do in advance, although once you've tried a variety of things you can often derive patterns (e.g. most people in kink like either "sting" or "thud" pain but fewer like both).
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 02:22 am (UTC)It certainly is. I don't think mine is on that level of complicated, but it doesn't feel like much of an exaggeration when I say the conditions for me being in the right mood for sex are "once every third blue moon from 6-8pm with pink tights. And oh ya, next time they have to be purple." XD Brains are complicated.
>>Figuring out what you like or don't like, and why, is easier if you have lists of possible things.<<
Lists certainly help, then I don't have to think of things from scratch, and I'm less likely to miss something. Although it can still be tricky when things are conditional. (Hmmm... that "sometimes" box might come in real handy.)
>>Try to cultivate a little willingness to explore things that you aren't sure you'd like, or think you might not like, as long as they're not downright offputting. I've had some surprises, and this seems to be a common experience.<<
I generally like trying new things, though I have to remember not to go into it with too many preconceived notions. Sometimes I can psyche myself out, if I go in expecting not to like something.
>>although once you've tried a variety of things you can often derive patterns (e.g. most people in kink like either "sting" or "thud" pain but fewer like both)<<
I seem to be one of the rarer ones who likes both, though I prefer milder amounts of either, rather than a lot of "sting" or "thud." I have noticed a tendency to avoid anything that is pinchy or scratchy though; those sensation don't really do it for me.
Re: One person’s take...
Date: 2021-02-24 05:32 am (UTC)Very helpful if you can figure out the variables. Some women only enjoy penetration during part of the month. Some men only enjoy erotic pain when coupled with genital stimulation. And so on.